If one lives a life of reason, one will not come under the influence of Fate, but under the benign influence of Providence, where all is working in a timeless way for one’s good. Novelguide.com is the premier free source for literary analysis on the web. She makes it clear that the human soul can “go home” to the divine center on its own. Even a good man like Boethius can become unbalanced in an extreme situation, and like a physician, Philosophy appears to remind him to use his mind and his reason to come out of his emotions and misunderstanding. Some may perhaps think it strange that we say that wicked men, who form the majority of men, do not exist; but that is how it is. The first theme of … The Consolations of Philosophy. Passion is a life of the senses. Tom Shippey in particular has noted Boethian themes throughout Tolkien’s work, and an understanding of The Consolation of Philosophy can provide deeper insights into Tolkien’s works. Human perversity, then, makes divisions of that which by nature is one and simple, and in attempting to obtain part of something which has no parts, succeeds in getting neither the part—which is nothing—nor the whole, which they are not interested in. O Thou who dost by everlasting reason rule,Creator of the planets and the sky, who timeFrom timelessness dost bring, unchanging Mover,No cause drove Thee to mould unstable matter, butThe form benign of highest good within Thee set.All things Thou bringest forth from Thy high archetype:Thou, height of beauty, in Thy mind the beauteous worldDost bear, and in that ideal likeness shaping it,Dost order perfect parts a perfect whole to frame. It is the universal understanding of the human mind that God, the author of all things, is good. The Consolation of Philosophy by Roman senator and philosopher Boethius is considered the last great philosophical work of the classical era and one of the foundational texts of medieval Christian thought. She tries to show him two sorts of humans, those who have fallen below the human level and who live by their animal passions, and those philosophers who live by reason, thus raising themselves to a divine level of life. How does one face one’s own mortality? For instance, there is the inclusion of philosophical themes—mainly of the kind contained in the Consolation of Philosophy of Boethius—astrological references, and an epic context. God has foreknowledge and rests a spectator from on high of all things; and as the ever present eternity of His vision dispenses reward to the good and punishment to the bad, it adapts itself to the future quality of our actions. Luckily, Lady Philosophy shows up to serve as Boethius’s “nurse” and emphasizes that Fortune is not the same as happiness. Philosophy does not just tell Boethius that he can be with God after death; she asserts that he can be with God now in his life. His own experiences seem to show that evil men flourish while the good go unrewarded. Pardoner 's tale. They would still have been pleasing by themselves, even if separated from your possessions. Overview. This, Philosophy counters, is a matter of perspective. Boethius’s misfortune, Philosophy suggests, is actually good for him: it is the world’s way of reminding him about God, the only truly absolute good that exists. The Consolation of Philosophy. His passion makes him believe that God has deserted him to evil forces. He is full of grief at what he has lost, as well as the prospect of death. This is witnessed by the many thoughtful reader review the book has received here and elsewhere. Epicurus first. First published by Hamish Hamilton in 2000. This is a central doctrine in Christianity, that humans cannot save their own souls because they are weighed down with too much sin. Boethius objects to Philosophy's reasons for believing "evil is nothing" and "evil men are powerless." And if, then, they don’t contain a spark of beauty worth seeking, why weep over their loss or rejoice at their preservation? “All fortune is certainly good.”“How can that be?”“Listen. No man is so completely happy that something somewhere does not clash with his condition. Wealth is only important because it leads to self-sufficiency, position because it gives people their due respect, power because it ensures people are not “weak and impotent” to fulfill their desires, fame because it is a sign “of great excellence,” and pleasure because people always want “delight” rather than “suffering.” However, pursuing these goals independently of one another is dangerous. The Consolation was written in the period leading up to his brutal execution. For no one except the greatest of fools would hate good men. You creatures of earth, don’t you stop to consider the people over whom you think you exercise authority? The only way one man can exercise power over another is over his body and what is inferior to it, his possessions. i) as Philosophy promises to give the author’s mind “wings on which to lift itself” (p. 86). It contains five Books, which are written in a combination of prose and verse. Around 480 C.E., the main character Boethius was born in order to become the next renowned scholar of Rome. This Study Guide consists of approximately 30 pages of chapter summaries, quotes, character analysis, themes, and more - everything you need to sharpen your knowledge of The Consolation of Philosophy. Rand, and S.J. ... Theme Of Religion In The Pardoner's Tales. [6] [7] The tale is the first to be told in The Canterbury Tales , as it is announced as such in the "Prologue." At first it seems just a matter of definition or point of view, but later she shows they are actually two different mechanisms. Another hymn (III.xi) specifically describes the movement of turning back to the center of the soul. Philosophy makes a distinction between Fate and Providence to answer his question. Philosophy, embodied in a beautiful woman, … He does not speak of Christ as the savior of souls. Instant downloads of all 1388 LitChart PDFs She goes on to explain that Providence is above Fate, and it rules Fate. She describes how the mind can escape the corrupt sublunary sphere beneath the moon, can pass through the sphere of fire, pass the ether, pass the stars, because it possesses “the holy light” (p. 86) to approach God’s center and say, “I remember” (p. 87). Enter a university department today and ask to study wisdom, and you will politely but firmly be shown the door. LitCharts assigns a color and icon to each theme in The Consolation of Philosophy, which you can use to track the themes throughout the work. Fate was a term the Greeks used for what was beyond the control of humans. Likewise, the human mind imitates this motion of being able to go inward to its source, which is the same as God’s center within each soul. Consolation Of Philosophy: Boccaccio And Boethius. More Details. The Consolation of Philosophy Themes Denial of the pleasures of the flesh. Translation by H. F. Stewart, E.K. The result is that one lives in darkness, unable to know higher truth. The Consolation of Philosophy Heather Springgay The general situation and theme within Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy, and the Phaedo, contain striking simi­ larities, but even more striking are the differences that redefine Boethius' work. For all perfect things are obviously superior to those that are imperfect. This turn back to the center of the soul is not represented as the same as being saved by Christ or God. In the Hymn to God that is the book’s climax (III.ix), Philosophy describes the self-circling divine mind, always turning back to itself in eternal self-sufficiency. "My students can't get enough of your charts and their results have gone through the roof." Classical references. He craves some deeper understanding of his situation and wants to determine if he can still live his final days with a sense of genuine purpose and peace. The Consolation of Philosophy implies that it is not enough to wait for God to save the soul. During Epicurus’s early years he looked towards other philosophers as an inspiration. You cannot impose anything on a free mind, and you cannot move from its state of inner tranquillity a mind at peace with itself and firmly founded on reason. The first time was because I had lost the memory through the influence of the body, and this second time because I lost it when I became overwhelmed by the weight of my grief.”. […]Grant, Father, that our minds Thy august seat may scan,Grant us the sight of true good’s source, and grant us light That we may fix on Thee our mind’s unblinded eye.Disperse the clouds of earthly matter’s cloying weight; Shine out in all Thy glory; for Thou art rest and peaceTo those who worship Thee; to see Thee is our end,Who art our source and maker, lord and path and goal. But we have agreed that perfect good is true happiness; so that it follows that true happiness is to be found in the supreme God. To acquire a taste for it is almost to become naturalised in the Middle Ages — C. S. Lewis The gods appointed certain destinies for each person, and there was nothing to be done about it. You would laugh if you saw a community of mice and one mouse arrogating to himself power and jurisdiction over the others. In the book, the theme of the ascent of the soul is largely set forth in the hymns that Philosophy sings. Compare the approaches of the Hellenistically educated Boethius with the monkish Kempis. Around 523, he was convicted of conspiracy … The most surprising theme in The Consolation of Philosophy is the ascent of the soul to God. For just as weakness is a disease of the body, so wickedness is a disease of the mind. Again, think of the human body: could you discover anything more feeble than man, when often even a tiny fly can kill him either by its bite or by creeping into some inward part of him? The Consolation of Philosophy Themes. It is clear, therefore, that happiness is a state made perfect by the presence of everything that is good, a state, which, as we said, all mortal men are striving to reach though by different paths. According to Philosophy, wise people focus on these possessions, the stable elements that really compose happiness, rather than “hop[ing for] and fear[ing]” the Wheel of Fortune. Rather, wise people recognize the futility of searching for happiness in earthly pleasures rather than in “the sum of happiness” that is attainable through God. Teach your students to analyze literature like LitCharts does. It isn’t because they are part of your wealth that they are precious, but because you thought them precious that you wanted to add them to the sum of your riches. Just because Boethius is trapped in prison by evil men does not mean he is under the control of Fate. Whoever wants truth “shall turn unto himself his inward gaze,/ Shall bring his wandering thoughts in circle home/ And teach his heart that what it seeks abroad/ It holds in its own treasuries within” (p. 77). It has this capability to return to its own source. 17 x 11,5) legatura tutta tela rossa con fregi e titoli dorati al piatto anteriore e al dorso e sovraccopertina, pp. The Consolation of Philosophy. “.... nothing is miserable except when you think it so, and vice versa, all luck is good luck to the man … In discussing the depiction of women in Boethius’ The Consolation of Philosophy, we found that the main women character, Lady Philosophy, seems to embody a sense of duality.On one hand, we can see that in the Consolation, Lady Philosophy assumes the role of consoling Boethius. Since nothing can be conceived better than God, everyone agrees that that which has no superior is good. Anything which departs from this ceases to exist, because its existence depends on the preservation of its nature. Her instruction on the nature of fortune and happiness, good and evil, fate and free will, restore his health and bring him to enlightenment. From all this it is obvious that not one of those things which you count among your blessings is in fact any blessing of your own at all. - Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1990, 16mo (cm. While with success false Fortune favoured meOne hour of sadness could not have thrown me down,But now her trustless countenance has clouded,Small welcome to the days that lengthen life.Foolish the friends who called me happy then:For falling shows a man stood insecure. First published in the year 524 under the Latin title De consolatione philosophiae, this work had a major influence on Christian thought and philosophy throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance period. Detailed explanations, analysis, and citation info for every important quote on LitCharts. While a happy person has all of them, happiness “has no parts,” so “seeking the sum of happiness” is the only legitimate strategy. Boethius and the Notion of Duality By Ann Rayburn, Julia Liu, Wren McMillan. From the very beginning, Philosophy tries to tell Boethius that his suffering is not due to circumstance but to his emotional collapse. Translation by S.J. His success… Clashes between philosophy and the arts, framed more broadly as clashes between cool reasoning and hotheaded emotionality, were nothing new in Boethius 's day. It is a dialogue of alternating prose and verse between the ailing prisoner and his 'nurse' Philosophy. Our, Classical Philosophy and Medieval Christianity, LitCharts assigns a color and icon to each theme in, Compare and contrast themes from other texts to this theme…, The ThemeTracker below shows where, and to what degree, the theme of Wisdom, Fortune, and Happiness appears in each part of. Other articles where Consolation of Philosophy is discussed: fable, parable, and allegory: Diversity of forms: Boethius’s Consolation of Philosophy (c. ad 524) and Dante’s The New Life (c. 1293) interrupt the prose discourse with short poems. Boethius is despairing while he waits in prison for his execution. These sub-human people may just suffer, or they may actually turn to evil. Thanks for checking out our website. vi., p. 104). Struggling with distance learning? Now I know the other cause, or rather the major cause of your illness: you have forgotten your true nature. Therefore, “God is the essence of happiness,” and happiness’s five dimensions are actually just material “shadows of the true good.” But this raises a question that scholars of Boethius have debated for centuries: to achieve true happiness, what relationship should people have to God? a dialogue with a mythical, imaginary, or allegorical figure). They have the ability to choose which way to turn in life. A great necessity is laid upon you, if you will be honest with yourself, a great necessity to be good, since you live in the sight of a judge who sees all things. Written while Boethius was in prison awaiting execution for treason, the book takes the form of a dialogue between the author and the Lady Philosophy, exploring issues like … Tester. The poem Boethius recites at the very beginning of the Consolation demonstrates his misery, and he blames Fortune for destroying the perfect happiness he used to possess. Subject: Write a 3-4 page paper comparing Boethius, The Consolation of Philosophy and Kempis, The Imitation of Christ. Hope is not placed in God in vain and prayers are not made in vain, for if they are the right kind they cannot but be efficacious. The Consolation of Philosophy Summary The Consolation of Philosophy is a short work of literature, written in the form of a prosimetrical apocalyptic dialogue (i.e. Chaucer uses a tragic tale to demonstrate a timeless lesson: the love of money is the root of all evil, and those who covet money and covet death will find it. The time spent in a chamber in almost unbearable conditions inspired something in him. ix., p. 67). The Consolation of Philosophy Philosophy cannot give complete consolation, therefore, Lady Philosophy’s main aim is to restore Boethius’s relationship with God, who can provide true consolation. Please let us know if you have any suggestions or comments or would like any additional information. There would have to be something else possessing perfect goodness over and above God, which would seem to be superior to Him and of greater antiquity. Teachers and parents! Boethius’s title is deceptively literal: he dialogues with Philosophy in this book not because he seeks wisdom about the universe, but because he is sad and wants consolation. She personifies Fortune as a trickster goddess who cruelly “seduces” people and then gleefully crushes them, sending them up and down as though on a wheel. But Philosophy declares that, despite Boethius’s imprisonment and impending senseless death, he “still possess[es] outstanding blessings.” While good fortune, “wealth, honours and the like” are not true possessions, since they can be given or taken away, Boethius possesses the “precious” things that are really his own: loyal family and friends, sharp and infallible reason, and knowledge of God. LitCharts Teacher Editions. What sort of power is it, then, that strikes fear into those who possess it, confers no safety on you if you want it, and which cannot be avoided when you want to renounce it? As one faces death, one thinks of the relationship to God and the destiny of the soul after death. Writing from prison around 525 CE, Boethius turned to philosophy to transform his personal distress into a powerful meditation on fate, free will, and the human capacity for virtue in a flawed, fallen world. The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius is an unjustly neglected masterpiece. Comment: *** ATTENZIONE *** STAI ACQUISTANDO QUESTO ARTICOLO: The Theological Tractates. For example, the pursuit of wealth is pointless because people are “superior” to the inanimate things they hope to possess, which have no value in themselves. Boethius find himself before a Roman prosecutor after being charged for high-treason. At first, Boethius is miserable and confused because he wrongly ties his sense of self and happiness to his fortune in the world. Boethius's The Consolation of Philosophy is Ignatius's favorite book. Otherwise He couldn’t be the author of creation. Taking this idea further, the last two books of the Consolation focus on what can be known about the nature of God, which suggests that knowledge of God is an important part of achieving absolute good. Therefore, Philosophy’s teachings lead Boethius away from his false happiness (based on Fortune) and toward true happiness (based in God) on a handful of levels: she reminds him to pray and think of God; she teaches him about God’s true nature, the knowledge of which is a form of divinity and happiness; and she reminds Boethius that, when he does die, he will return to God and get the opportunity to be truly happy, despite the profound injustice that has tainted his final days on Earth. In order to find “the sum of happiness,” humans must turn away from the material world and focus on developing a relationship to God. Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Part I-III, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Part IV-VII, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book II Part I-III, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book II Part IV-VI, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book II Part VII-VIII, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book III Part I-III, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book III Part IV-VIII, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book III Part IX-XII, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book IV Part I-IV, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book IV Part V-VII, Consolation of Philosophy:Summary of Book V Part I-VI, Consolation of Philosophy: Character Profiles, Consolation of Philosophy: Metaphor Analysis, Consolation of Philosophy: Theme Analysis, Consolation of Philosophy: Top Ten Quotes, Consolation of Philosophy: Essay & Questions, Thomas Jefferson: the Man, the Myth, and the Morality, Teddy Roosevelt: the Man Who Changed the Face of America, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. The sun into the western waves descends,Where underground a hidden way he wends;Then to his rising in the east he comes:All things seek the place that best becomes.Each thing rejoices when this is retrieved:For nothing keeps the order it received Except its rising to its fall it bend And make itself a circle without end. Few books have exercised a wider influence in their time. He refers to it constantly throughout the novel, and when he sees a pornographic picture of a nude woman reading it, he just about falls in love, and actually contemplates having a girlfriend—a prospect which at … The book starts with a story that really represents the beginning of one incredible journey. The book called 'The Consolation of Philosophy' was throughout the Middle Ages, and down to the beginnings of the modern epoch in the sixteenth century, the scholar's familiar companion. For the desire for true good is planted by nature in the minds of men, only error leads them astray towards false good. Because fortune is always unstable, anyone who bases their happiness on it—like Boethius—is bound to be disappointed. And there is no reason at all for hating the bad. How are they specifically similar or different? Scholars have been surprised that Boethius, who was a Christian, did not bring in his Christian beliefs here. Wisdom, Fortune, and Happiness. First, Philosophy explains that “the sum of happiness” must be at once absolutely self-sufficient, absolutely powerful, absolutely “worthy of veneration,” “unsurpassed in fame and glory,” and finally, “supremely happy.” The five dimensions of happiness—“wealth, position, power, fame, [and] pleasure”—are “differ[ent] in name, but not in substance.” Since nothing is greater than God, Philosophy’s argument continues, nothing can be more powerful, “worthy of veneration,” or “supremely happy” than God himself. He thinks he is a plaything of Fortune. Reason produces a “fruitful harvest” while Passion only produces “barren thorns” (I. i., p. 4). -Graham S. Below you will find the important quotes in, “Would not have made it through AP Literature without the printable PDFs. In Ancient Greece or Rome, philosophers were seen as natural authorities on the most pressing questions. Providence “is the divine reason itself,” while Fate is the binding influence of one’s own actions (IV. This detailed literature summary also contains Topics for Discussion and a Free Quiz on The Consolation of Philosophy by Anicius Manlius Severinus Boethius. Analysis The Consolation of Philosophy begins with a memorable confrontation between Philosophy, who appears in person, and poetry, represented by the Muses. Then I said, “I agree very strongly with Plato. Here's an in-depth analysis of the most important parts, in an easy-to-understand format. The Problem of Evil. Inconstancy is my very essence; it is the game I never cease to play as I turn my wheel in its ever changing circle, filled with joy as I bring the top to the bottom and the bottom to the top. The Consolations of Philosophy sets out to refute the … He has fallen from a remarkable position as one of the king’s closest personal advisors to an unenviable place in jail, awaiting execution for a crime he did not commit. Real happiness, Philosophy explains, is not about these five “puny and fragile” pursuits, which are subject to the whims of Fortune. Men who give up the common goal of all things that exist, thereby cease to exist themselves. THE CONSOLATION OF PHILOSOPHY-5-EDITORIAL NOTE THE incompatibility of the sufferings of good men, the impunity and success of bad men, with the government of the world by a good God, has been a subject of thought among men ever since religion and abstract questions have occupied the thoughts of mankind. Anicius Boethius (c. 477-524 CE) was a philosopher and statesman in late Roman times, acting as advisor to the Gothic king Theodoric. It is the nature of human affairs to be fraught with anxiety; they never prosper perfectly and they never remain constant. The original text plus a side-by-side modern translation of. Oedipus, for instance, tried to outwit the fate foretold him, but he fulfilled the prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother, despite his attempts to escape. There is no way the human mind can understand all this, but through reason it can verify God’s justice. Once more he sees the order in the universe and knows God is running things. As one faces death, one thinks of the relationship to God and the destiny of the soul after death. Having suffered a cascade of misfortune, Boethius is ultimately accused of plotting to overthrow Ostrogothic King Theodoric and awaits an unjust execution ordered by the very ruler Boethius spent decades serving. But even if Boethius did not accept Philosophy’s arguments about God, her lessons about fortune still remind Boethius about the futility of his worldly pursuits, and therefore console him in his darkest hour. Passion makes one feel like a victim; reason, like a philosopher who is above the storm of life. The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius is a work by a Roman philosopher that falls into two schools of thought: the Roman and the Scholastics. He has tried to live a virtuous life, but maybe the cards were stacked against him. He must have faith in God and use his reason to stay under the sway of Providence where everything will turn out to produce the good for him, even if he dies. Think about (but don’t have to include all) their approaches to God, Scripture, good and evil, philosophy, reason […] All fortune whether pleasant or adverse is meant either to reward or discipline the good or to punish or correct the bad. Reason shows that God is so good that we are convinced that His goodness is perfect. Providence, on the other hand, is the term used to mean that all events are part of God’s plan. The human obligation is to use reason to approach God during one’s life. While with success false Fortune favoured me. Just as you might call a corpse a dead man, but couldn’t simply call it a man, so I would agree that the wicked are wicked, but could not agree that they have unqualified existence. Having trouble understanding A Confederacy of Dunces? Verse and prose then interact to give a new thematic perspective. Anicius Manlius Severinus Boethius. I can’t put up with your dilly-dallying and the dramatization of your care-worn grief-stricken complaints that something is lacking from your happiness. Please check back weekly to see what we have added. First, Philosophy explains that people can become happy “through the possession of divinity,” which is about taking “refuge from distress” in prayer. Finally, there is a hymn describing the ascent of the soul to God (IV. However, since then, the idea of finding wisdom from philosophy has come to seem bizarre. God not only works out the plan for each person but also for the whole universe, simultaneously. They need divine intervention to take away the sin, the darkness, so the soul can approach God. Philosophy’s calm presence and step-by-step reasoning force him to use his higher faculties. (including. In fact, the rich tend to become cruel, evil, selfless, unempathetic, and gluttonous, so pursuing wealth leads to misery, not happiness. Novelguide.com is continually in the process of adding more books to the website each week. The Old English Boethius boldly refashions in Anglo-Saxon guise a great literary monument of the late antique world, The Consolation of Philosophy. Wisdom, Fortune, and Happiness Quotes in The Consolation of Philosophy. This brings him out of passion and darkness. Fate is like a chain of necessity, of harsh cause and effect, governing what is farthest away from God. Summary. Philosophy explains that people usually seek five things in their quest for happiness through Fortune: “wealth, position, power, fame, [and] pleasure.” This is Boethius’s error, since pursuing each of these things actually leads people to misery, rather than happiness. You should not wear yourself out by setting your heart on living according to a law of your own in a world that is shared by everyone. The Consolations of Philosophy, Alain de Botton The Consolations of Philosophy is a nonfiction book by Alain de Botton. And Philosophy successfully gives Boethius the consolation he seeks: she shows him that his downfall does not affect his true happiness, since “God is the essence of happiness” and one’s fortune in life has nothing to do with it. How does one face one’s own mortality? Back in the days, Rome was the center not only of military strength and influence but also intelligence, progress, and prosperity. Book I, Part I Quotes. Those who live in ignorance far from the light, commit acts that bind them to strict and lawful consequences. The Consolation presents a work that in its basic Classical Philosophy and Medieval Christianity. They're like having in-class notes for every discussion!”, “This is absolutely THE best teacher resource I have ever purchased. This is why among wise men there is no place at all left for hatred. Print Word PDF. The closer to God and to the light one lives, the less the rigidity of Fate can influence one’s life. Tester. A Rare And Varied Consolation Boethius's "The Consolation of Philosophy" is a rare and unusual philosophical work in that it continues to be read by many people who are not philosophers or students of philosophy. Therefore, to avoid an unending argument, it must be admitted that the supreme God is to the highest degree filled with supreme and perfect goodness. Boethius questions Philosophy over and over: if God is in charge of the world, why is there evil? It is the perfection of all good things and contains in itself all that is good; and if anything were missing from it, it couldn’t be perfect, because something would remain outside it, which could still be wished for. We agree, therefore, on the justice or usefulness of fortune, and so all fortune is good.”. Philosophy affirms that these five things are important, but only to an extent: someone who is truly happy will have a balance of all five. Providence is the higher force, which subsumes the workings of Fate. It is the description of how the human can participate in divine goodness while alive, thus deserving to continue to do so after death. At the moment of death, however, Boethius turns to the consolation of ancient philosophy, especially to the transcendental philosophies of Plato and Plotinus. Below you will find the important quotes in The Consolation of Philosophy related to the theme of Wisdom, Fortune, and Happiness. Looked towards other philosophers as an inspiration that providence is above Fate, and prosperity agree, therefore on... Know if you saw a community of mice and one mouse arrogating to power! To circumstance but to his brutal execution only of military strength and influence but for... Turn to evil forces charts and their results have gone through the.. Fate, and prosperity victim ; reason, like a victim ;,. Anxiety ; they never remain constant mind “ wings on which to lift itself ” ( I. I. p.! Know higher truth literature summary also contains Topics for Discussion and a Free Quiz on the other cause, they... Are convinced that his suffering is not enough to wait for God to save the soul after.! 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